Support for Donnybrook is provided in part by Design Aire Heating and Cooling.

Well, you don't know what fair is.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

>> Hey, it's opening day.

Go Cardinals.

Battlehawks open their season on Saturday.

And I really want to give a shout out to those at the Missouri Valley Conference for a spectacular NCAA two rounds of basketball this weekend.

The weather was perfect, the fans were perfect, downtown was perfect.

We can really get some things done when we put our minds to it.

Welcome to Donnybrook.

Alvin Reid sitting in for Charlie Brennan.

One more last week here.

Charlie will be back next week.

And of course joining me is media veteran Wendy Whis.

One of our founders, Bill McClellan of the St.

Louis Post Dispatch, political columnist from the St.

Louis Post Dispatch, Joe Holleman.

And in my seat tonight, Sarah Finske, 314 podcast, St.

Louis magazine.

Well, Sarah, um, Connor Carrian, formerly of the mayor's office before, uh, Cara Spencer was elected, has kind of been fed up with the, uh, new police board and says one action that the citizens of St.

Louis and others could take is to boycott um the businesses of some of the police board members.

That would be obviously um car dealership owned by how can I be forgetting his name?

Uh Maggie's and Maggie's West uh and also Chris's Pancake House.

Uh fair, unfair?

What's your thoughts on that?

>> I think it's fair.

I think a lot of city residents are fed up.

Um we've had this police board that was sort of put upon us.

uh not people that we would have necessarily voted for but appointed by the governor who again city residents did not vote for.

And so it's like how do we get these people's attention?

How do we show them that we're unhappy with their demands on the budget front?

There aren't really ways to get through to them.

It's not like you could do like you could go to an alderman, hey, I'm not going to vote for you anymore uh if you continue to pursue this policy.

You got to hit them in the pocketbook.

They're private businessmen.

They're not public officials.

I think that's the way to get their attention.

>> I think it's kind of silly.

I think it's I I think it seem it makes us seem small.

It makes us seem petty, low rent.

I think that we are a we are a large we have been in the past.

Hopefully, we will be again a large metropolitan area with a lot of things going for us.

And I think that cooler heads will prevail.

If you could get them in a meeting, you know, if you could somehow, you know, maybe have some type of reach some type of consensus, I think that's better than let's just boycott because these are people who care about their city.

They're trying to do something purposeful and to to penalize them, I just I just think it's small.

>> I I want to piggyback off of that because you use the word petty and that's exactly what it it struck me as is uh we didn't get things the way we wanted it, so we're going to be mad.

Now, I respect anybody's right to boycott any business, and that's fine.

If you don't want to give them your money for their product, don't.

But, you know, at the end of the day, when you look at it, is is that what you're going to do is you're saying, "Here's the best way to do something that one won't change the existence of a police board.

It doesn't matter who's on it.

There's still going to be a police board and the state's still going to control the police department."

That was decided by the legislature.

But, it sends a couple messages that I don't like.

and especially from people who say, "We're very concerned about the city."

And what it's saying is, "So, we want you to punish city business owners, punish their business, boosters of the city."

That's not a great attitude.

And also, let's make it really difficult for people who volunteer to serve in a civic role.

Let's make it really hard on them.

I think it's just very uh misguided to make such a public thing about it as if this is what has to be done because there's this outrageous offense uh to the population.

And I I think the other thing and I think we've addressed it on this show.

You said people are very ha unhappy.

There's also people who are happy with it >> and that that's the point that gets lost.

What you're basically saying is I'm unhappy.

You don't want to go to those businesses.

Don't.

>> Okay.

I I think it's just a matter of principle.

It's like people who would otherwise buy a Tesla but say, you know, I don't like Elon Musk's politics, so I'm not going to buy a Tesla.

Or the folks who decided uh they didn't like Annheiser Bud Light putting a can out honoring some transgender person saying, "I'm not going to drink Bud Light."

I think it's just an very American thing.

And I think it got the attention of Elon Musk when, you know, his sales plummeted when liberals stopped buying his cars.

I think he was like, "Whoa, I better stop messing around with stuff in Washington DC."

I think it got the attention of uh Sorry, what was your other example?

>> Bud, it definitely got the attention.

And I think here they're not saying don't serve on the police board.

We're boycotting you because you chose to serve on the police board.

They're saying we hate what the police board is doing.

We want the police board to be more rational and to work with the mayor on the budget number she's giving them rather than come in with an irrational demand trying to shape their behavior.

>> Because I was just going to say, all right, I'm put yourself in Mayor Spencer's shoes.

She's one vote against four people that just seem they don't even listen to her.

So far, it's like nothing you have to say, we want to hear.

But she is a member of that board.

So, isn't it a way of supporting the mayor by maybe taking this action?

Could you see that?

Could I see supporting the mayor is so which the mayor wants city businesses to suffer?

No.

What I'm saying is she wants to control the police board breaking the city with this budget that they've festuned upon her and she's just one vote.

So how do I support her?

Maybe this is an action that I take to support the mayor.

>> Grown-ups used to talk.

>> Well, I I I would guess that one way Connor Carrian could have was vote for Cara Spencer.

My guess is he didn't.

Wait a minute.

Now hold on, >> Alvin.

You posed the question.

>> You're saying that because I voted against somebody now, I should not ever defend anything they do.

I I think that makes sense.

>> You Well, what doesn't make sense is is when you come up to say that this is the only way you can express the only way.

Well, >> I said it's a way >> as is not doing this is also a way to do it.

And this thing is is that the thing is because some people disagree with something, not everybody disagrees with what the police board is trying to do.

But apparently we've reached this point is when I disagree with it, it's wrong.

It's not you have a different opinion.

>> People aren't saying we're not saying that it's wrong.

Just saying people have the have the right it makes some sense to say, you know, I disagree with this, so I'm not going to uh patronize.

There'll be people on the other side.

It's like Chick-fil-A.

There were liberals who said, "I'm not going to eat a Chick-fil-A."

And all of a sudden, conservatives said, "I'm gonna eat a Chick-fil-A."

>> I'm not challenging their right to boycott.

I hope nobody's challenging my right to say I think it's a bitter, petty maneuver.

>> Okay.

All right.

I myself, I have I've not been to Chris's.

I've not uh been to Maggie's West and and Maggie's Downtown.

Not because I'm boycotting, but because I'm going off on them on this show.

And so, like I don't want anybody to feel uncomfortable saying, "Ain't that the guy going off on you on TV?"

So, I just got to stand back on that one.

So, during the NCAA tournament uh this past weekend, the earlier curfew went into effect and the uh city declared it a u success and those that were picked up were treated to snacks and some other pleasantries as they awaited their parents coming to pick them up at the reunification center.

Uh if they had been me and I was called they called my parents I would have been unified with something you know corporal punishment wise >> you would have been strapped to the hood of your dad's car >> Joe I mean success or it sounds like the actual the nuts and bolts of it was a success and that these kids who violated the law uh will pay some sort of price citations to the parents or what have you.

My problem just came with the press release >> that came out that I thought it was an Onion satire piece that basically said we took all the kids down, we gave them juice boxes and happy meals and we read them stories and we sent them to a reunification center, not a detention center.

It was like we were trying every which way to say that they're breaking the law.

It wasn't really breaking the law.

You didn't do anything wrong.

I I just found it so self- serving and so ridiculous.

It sounded like things worked.

They took the kids in who were breaking the law.

Their parents had to come pick them up.

There you go.

I mean, but now it had to be.

It's like how nice and good and kind we were to the people who he brought in.

And it was silly.

>> And Rash to to read Rashene Aldridge's comments about how how upset he was at the photographs of the kids being zip tied.

You know, it wasn't the fact that there was mayhem, chaos, severe injuries, but it was the fact that the kids were zip tied and the the only people who are going to be dealing with any consequences are the parents of the children.

That's the problem because the kids did it.

So, instead of juice boxes and happy meals and animal crackers, maybe they need to have some consequences >> like jail and the baloney.

>> No, I'm not being that extreme, but >> neither am I. But I I think there's got to be something in in between.

>> I get where the city's coming from on this.

They're trying to walk a tight rope because they need to send the message of you can't have mayhem, especially downtown when we brought in all these tourists.

Like you need to to go home when we tell you to go home.

On the other hand, this is a city that has struggled with uh how we treat our young black people for a long time.

And there's a lot of us who are very uncomfortable with images of seeing people zip tied just for the fact that they're out at like 10:15 p.m.

It doesn't feel like the kind of crime where you want to see somebody paraded across the news channel.

So, I did appreciate that the city said, "Hey, we're trying to connect these kids with resources.

We feel like they were out, you know, that that these are people who maybe could benefit from talking to social workers or the Office of Violence Prevention because they obviously don't understand how things work."

That felt like a good stop.

>> But I think that that's that's the dis that's the disconnect because this isn't the this isn't the Democratic National Convention in Chicago.

Zip ties just don't rise to that level.

And so I think I think that's the disconnect.

Just >> Well, it certainly worked.

I mean, Alvin, you started out the show by saying what a great weekend they had in Chicago.

I mean, in uh St.

Louis with the NCAA here.

and and they did.

I mean, it was it was a wonderful weekend and so I'd say that the curfew went very well.

>> Yeah.

And I just, you know, we talked about last week, why can't we do this every weekend?

And I guess in your story, the police said, well, it's not up to us.

But I didn't get a sense >> up to the board of aldermen.

That's who it's up to.

And that's who they're trying to message on some of this stuff like, look, we can have a curfew, but we're not going to brutalize these kids.

They need to sell the aldermen on this.

And that's the fine line that the mayor is walking a little bit in supporting the curfew but making sure she's bringing over the more liberal wing of the city government.

>> You know, the alderman have changed.

I remember when Freeman Bosley senior wanted decain juveniles.

>> Yeah.

For being with graffiti.

I It also sounded like the police were kind of 50/50 on doing it every week.

>> I don't know.

The police seemed to be messaging, you know, the message from Mitch McCoy was like, "Call your alderman.

Tell them that you're in favor of this."

Which the chief didn't go that far.

That's >> well, Chief McCoy, right?

>> All right.

Okay.

I mentioned that it was opening day.

Well, on opening day at 8:00 this morning was when I learned what channel the Cardinal game was going to be on.

I have Direct TV, and it really wasn't official till 8 this morning that it was going to be on uh channel 692 on Direct TV, another channel on Spectrum.

Now, this to me is ridiculous.

Being a Cardinal fan, being living all over the United States, the Cardinals were always there, okay?

And in the city of St.

Louis or the whole region, I mean, tuning in home, the home opener should not be something that you're sitting around looking at your watch like, "Oh my gosh, when is the game going to be on, Bill?"

I mean, this never happens in Chicago, right?

Well, I'll tell you, Alvin, you know, I have MLB or I used to have MLB for the Cubs, so I could watch every game.

And I tried to get on this afternoon to watch it.

Couldn't called my uh IT team >> and and Mary couldn't do it.

And she even called MLB, you know, to say he's willing to pay for this.

and couldn't get it done and didn't have time to get my super IT team, you know, my grandkids over to try to figure it out.

So, I missed the game all together.

So, I I don't have a lot of sympathy for you having to figure out how to get >> at least I got the game.

>> You got the game.

>> But I see now I don't know about yours.

I'm on Spectrum.

I found out last night >> uh they sent an email, I guess, to subscribers saying it was on 233.

So, I'm like, great.

So, I'll go there and I'll DVR it, right?

I'll record it.

Could not get it to record.

And of course, I waited like 20 minutes before I was supposed to be in here.

So, I'm like, and I tried it like five times and couldn't get it to record.

And I'm like, all right, well, I guess it's only live or what?

I don't know.

And that could have been operator error.

I'll say that.

But the idea that that at 7:30 last night, I'm looking at an email going, tomorrow's games on this channel, it's like, is this going to change week to week?

Like, do I got to wait for an email tonight to say it's going to be on another channel?

I mean, >> and when we were growing up, it was just Jay Randolph, Channel 5, right?

I mean, that was just that easy.

Jay Randolph, Channel 5.

Um, Chris goes through the same thing with MLB.

He's a Royals fan.

Sorry, Mixed Marriage.

But, um, I don't know how we get into it.

I I don't know.

I don't care.

But I know that almost every game he has to call somebody at MLB to tell them that we shouldn't be blacked out, that it's it, you know, so all of the software involved, all of the overlapping carriers, it has to be a nightmare.

I feel sorry for them, but this is what greed does.

>> It's just bonkers, you know, hearing what people go through.

And I heard from several of our readers today of the newsletter saying, "Hey, you know, I thought I was going to be able to get this through at Universe.

I couldn't.

People were frustrated."

I think the net effect is it's completely turning off casual fans.

You're right.

And I think about somebody like me who would turn on the game if it was super easy just because I'd be like, I want to know how the Cardinals are doing and then maybe get sucked in and and be reminded of how much I used to love baseball.

They are making that impossible.

>> Well, and you have said this about your daughters and how they've made it so complicated that parents can't bring their kids into the traditions of the game the way they used to.

>> I think it was an excellent point about casual fans, right?

I mean, the hardcore I'm going to sit and figure it out, you know, because I want to watch the games or and I hope everybody else does this is uh reacquaint yourself with the beauty of baseball on radio.

>> I actually prefer listening to baseball on radio than watching it on TV.

But, uh, but the casual fan who will drop in, drop out, all the games on, nothing else I want to watch, and next thing you know, you're a Cardinal fan and you're following it and everything like that.

That's where they run the real danger.

Excellent point.

>> I want just throw this in here too.

Uh Dan Caesar had an excellent article about the Blues broadcast, how it it's a radio telecast that they are putting on uh a TV broadcast that they're putting on the radio.

And he had some great lines where the announcers are saying like, "Yeah, and you can see such and such."

And Dan said, "No, I can't see because I'm driving my car.

I'm looking at the >> You know, you know Dan Caesar is a real throwback as far as a report."

He's back in the days when reporters had beats >> and Dan has the media sports beat and he covers it so well and I I just enjoy >> he's fantastic.

So maybe we can get our act together.

And Bill, as a you know, as a White Sox fan, Cardinal fan too, obviously the main team, but as a White Sox fan and a Cubs fan, I could tell you that we both got blasted today on opening.

>> I'm glad you Well, there's some good news.

There's some good.

All right, speaking of getting blasted, San Page is on a rampage.

I made that up myself.

All right, out in St.

Louis County.

Okay, now we're not going to have fireworks at Jefferson Barracks.

And the offices are going to be closed on Friday.

The county council has fired back by subpoening his work.

>> Medicare reimbursement.

>> Yeah, Medicare reimbursements.

And how much is he working?

I mean, the man's not running for re-election, so he'll be a lame duck after the first week of August.

Wendy, when will there be a truce?

>> I don't know.

I I This is This is like the war of the roses.

I mean, it really is.

This is This is such This is a marriage that is that that has gone so far south that everybody is looking forward to celebrating the end of the marriage when the divorce decree is final.

Let the man go.

I and unless you have a huge smoking howitzer in a in a press sense when it comes to any kind of Medicare any fishy Medicare reimbursement, let him go.

You know, let let there just don't terrify the next county executive, the incoming county executive, because you're really setting the tone and do the people's business instead of the business of politics for a change.

>> Well said.

And I think Sam Paige probably just fell over because I've always criticized everything he did.

But he's, you know, he's not running again.

He's trying to leave, you know, on an up note.

And so just let the man go.

>> It's a it's entertainment.

It you can either have good government or fun government.

Yeah.

>> And and and the board of alderman in the city used to be fun government and the county government used to be good government.

And there's been a role reversal.

>> I'm not sure they've reversed so much as one joined the other.

Good.

Good boy.

>> I will say though, like I I feel very bad for county residents.

Like cutting the fireworks on Fourth of July, like that used to be the kind of move that if you made you'd get run out of town on a rail.

Like that was sacrianked and with some good reason.

And so while we're happy to have county people join us downtown, I think the Fair St.

Louis celebration is terrific.

You couldn't find $50,000 anywhere in that multi-million dollar budget.

I'm very skeptical.

>> But as you know, while we're clutching our pearls in the municipalities, every municipality seems to have its own fireworks display anymore.

You know, lots of >> I guess they all go to Kirk.

Yeah, they go to one of Sam Pa's arch enemies happens to be down there.

>> Mike Archer, right?

And I think the other way you said and I agree with you in the past you would have been run out of town on a rail.

They can't do that to Sam because he already jumped on the rail.

He said now he's riding the rail.

So it's like watching the lightning.

No, watch this.

You know, so now the um >> you mentioned the m municipalities.

That is one of the debates that goes on about the cost of fireworks.

Sure.

And I was always one who said no matter what the fireworks cost, the city, be it Kirkwood, Webster, whoever, should pay for it.

And there is some there is some blowback on that.

I mean, people are saying like we shouldn't be spending this much on fireworks if there's potholes or this or that.

So even though it's $50,000, maybe, you know, Sam is saying like, well, okay, somebody come up with the $50,000 and not the county.

But they have the 250th anniversary of of JB or 200th anniversary of JB, the 250th anniversary of the counties.

So, it it's just they've got a lot on their plate.

>> Well, but there's just so many things that used to be considered the public good that would come out of tax dollars and now it's like, let's have some businessmen get together and do this.

I mean, in in the city right now, it's everything from like, you know, do do you have policing, you know, does somebody maintain the park?

It's all just done by private donations.

It really makes all government at all levels is broke right now.

>> Well, it's the wealthy suburbs, the city, >> and all of our, you know, the Fortune 500 companies, like you said, now we're a branch office town.

We used to be headquarters, >> right?

Meanwhile, does anybody remember that Sam Page is on trial down there?

>> Yeah, I'm pretty sure he does.

>> I was going to say, I don't think he's like, you know, just throwing this stuff out here.

So, hey, get their mind off of that.

But I I guess that's on hold.

So, >> well, we actually we have been covering that and I feel like readers are not that interested in it.

But yeah, these felony charges are still looming.

He had asked for he had exerted his right to a speedy trial and then he ended up withdrawing that and saying actually I'd like to have a little more time with this.

And so that is now not going to happen in I think it was supposed to be like this week.

It's now been pushed back months.

So they're trying to I think figure out a plea deal.

>> All right.

Well, social media a scourge in many uh considerations.

I think I think we'd all agree on that.

But the state of Missouri is trying to pass a law that would make uh age, you know, identification required to uh like enter a social media site.

And Sarah, I think that's I think that's a front to first amendment rights myself.

>> I'm kind of with you on this.

I do not want to have to give over my driver's license number every time I visit a website.

That seems like a level of control over the internet that will eradicate the way that we've been using it for free speech, for democracy, for the sort of things that adults are are able to talk about.

I have a lot of skepticism about how we've allowed social media to proliferate with young people.

It's obviously done some damage, but is the is how we have to deal with this by locking down the entire internet so no one can be anonymous anymore?

I don't like that.

>> I think we I I am in favor of a social media ban for for minors.

I I I really am.

When you look at the numbers in terms of of suicidal ideiation, you look at all of the mental health crises, you look at the anxiety levels, the books on anxiety in children are flooding the market.

We have over the years we have learned that we have to protect children in terms of child labor laws in any number of different ways.

And I think eventually hopefully somebody who is much smarter than I am can figure out a way to, as you said, not make it too cumbersome for adults who want access, but to protect the children who need to be protected.

>> I think we protect our children in a lot of different ways by setting up age limits.

And I think this one only makes sense.

And it really struck home when was reading a story about it.

And the first line of the story was talking to a a young teenager, a minor, >> and he said, "My life is on the internet, and I found that in and of itself sad."

>> It's like, you know, my life was outside of my house when I was a kid doing things.

But the way this was, my life is on the internet.

Forget freedom of speech.

What is it doing to kids as to how they function in a society?

And they sit on their phone is their only main form of communication.

So, I think the idea is is that, and I always say, you know, when it comes to registration, you don't have to be on the internet, >> but if you want to be, put in your date.

It's like if you go to a website for a uh liquor store or a liquor maker, uh Makaker's Mark, I'll throw that example out.

>> I'm looking at looking at, you know, it says, "Are you 21?"

did that.

But I mean, so the idea that we set up levels to protect children and that we give up a little bit of our privacy in order to do that, I don't think that's unheard of.

>> I I agree.

And I'll be one of the people hurt if you have to do something to get on the internet.

I can't get on MLB.

I, you know, I can't remember my password.

I'll probably be banned from the internet.

But I I I just don't think it's good for kids at all.

So agree.

Well, I I would agree it's not good for kids, but I will say if there's anyone who can figure out how to get around age verification, it's going to be the teenagers and they're going to be going then to the dark web figuring out how to do all the stuff they want to do anyway.

It's going to be people like you who won't be able to figure out how to log on.

I It's hard to believe it's going to work >> and and who I mean, who gets the decision on what's a social media site and what's i.e.

this is bad, but this is good.

An example that was given to me, we laugh out loud at the Roadrunner and the coyote.

There are some people nowaday you can't show that to kids because that's just too violent and falling off cliffs and all that.

So, you know, you're thinking like, huh?

So, I just that's why I said like it just it's creating more of a problem than I think is out there.

And as for the parent where my life is the internet, you know, our parents kept us in the house.

>> We were treated we were treated like dogs.

Well, but wait.

We we couldn't be out.

We couldn't be out after the door.

That was a problem.

They brought us back and we we took they our parents controlled that.

Parents have to control the kids as far as social media is concerned.

>> Well, that's a whole another show, though.

>> All right.

All right.

Look at some letters here.

>> Data centers are expected to double between 2026 and 2030.

The resistance to them may be driven by nimi, but we've been sending emails and googling things for decades.

It didn't require 7,000 resourced depleting, noisegenerating megaliths with unnamed owners.

That by Carl Fiser of St.

Peters, Southwestern Bell and AT&T have had data centers in downtown St.

Louis for over 30 years.

I am not aware of it having any negative impacts on water supply or electricity.

It is one of the few major employers left in downtown St.

Louis.

That by Bill Hager of Rock Hill.

You can write to us at Donny Brook Care of 9PBS 3655 Olive Street, St.

Louis, Missouri 63108.

Send an email to Donnybrook at 9pbs.org or tweet us at Donnybrookst.

You can also give us a call at 314-512-94. and get away from that social media site and you can find us on any podcast place where you find your favorite podcast.

Donny Bash coming up real quick here, April 16th, few weeks away.

You can still get tickets at npbs.org/donny Donnybash and you can stream it all in the app.

Last call is coming up next.

Hang in there with us.

And before I go, I want to thank Sarah Finske for being me tonight.

And I want to thank you all out there for putting up with me for the last four weeks.

It's been a pleasure and a joy.

Charlie will be back next week.

Have a great night.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.